CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

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#276 Re: Main Forum » Eliminating all random elements » 2015-03-30 17:41:20

I'm proud to be making games that are played by people who are clearly way smarter than me.

#277 Re: Main Forum » Cheated out of victory? » 2015-03-30 17:36:06

The problem of "getting stuck with an amulet" when the player population is low is dramatically reduced by the new limit on the number of amulets released based on player population.  Yes, you could be that one amulet holder who can't find a game right when the player population started to dwindle, but that will be much more rare than it used to be when amulets were handed out with no regard to current player population.  So, I think that simply removing the DROP function will probably work.


Storeroom, you're addressing the general problem of colluding quick players having more chance of picking up amulets.

If fewer amulets were being dropped (with no DROP button), half of the problem is already solved (most amulets will NOT be picked up while free-floating, but will instead be won from someone else).

Regarding the other half of the problem---where colluding fast-players are more likely to be picked as an amulet game partner (and KNOW IT, because they won't pair with their colluder)---that's a tough one.  Your Amulet Challenger solution could potentially keep the amulet holder waiting for a long time for the next Amulet Challenger to be ready.  You suggest that one AC is selected each time an amulet game starts (effectively selecting the next challenger), so there would be a small pool of these ACs (one per active amulet).


But I do see what you're getting at here.  If you are picked to play an amulet game based on the "start of the game" moment, you are motivated to have as many "start of the game moments" per minute as possible (through collusion, or just through non-colluding fast play).  You're trying to reward "simply being in an active game" instead.

Hmm...

#278 Re: Main Forum » Cheated out of victory? » 2015-03-27 22:06:55

Also, I haven't paid the prizes yet.

Hopefully, we can keep this discussion going and find a solid solution.  Then I'll pay the prizes on Monday.

#279 Re: Main Forum » Cheated out of victory? » 2015-03-27 22:04:44

Yeah, handing them out in random order is easy to do and fixes a bunch of problems beyond just collusion, so I will do that.

HOWEVER...

It still seems like a colluder can get an advantage.  Perhaps not through the drop-repeatedly trick, but simply through coordinating pairs of colluding opponents to ensure that a colluder is pulled.  And even drop-repeatedly would help them rack up points evenly across all amulets, especially if they did it all week long.

Though it sounds like trying to pair with a colluder while holding the amulet is too scary with too much to lose if the pairing doesn't work out.  If a stranger gets pulled instead of your colluder, and the stranger wins the amulet from you, it could be a long time before it ever gets dropped again.  So the drop-and-repeat trick is more of a safe bet


The drop-repeatedly trick will be partly fixed by never setting 0 as the "number of users to skip" before the dropped amulet is given to someone.  When there are too few active games, that number can get stuck at 0 currently, which means the colluding pair will get the amulet back next game.

Still, if it had a bottom of 5 game, the colluding pair would just play/quit five games repeatedly until they got the amulet.

The problem is that colluders can play as fast as they want and effectively bypass any kind of count-based delay scheme.  Similarly, if the hand-out-delay is based on time, colluders playing repeated quick games will also be more likely to end a game at the right time.




Wait... why did we add a DROP AMULET button?

If you can't find an opponent and drop it after two hours, you still picked up 80 points on it (200 - 120).

Seems like removing the ability to drop simplifies the problem, because after the initial pickup, most amulets will be held and passed forever, so there will be no controlled way for a player to rack points through drop timing, etc.

Combined with the new limit on how many are handed out (based on active player pop), it should be okay not to have a DROP button.

#280 Re: Main Forum » Cheated out of victory? » 2015-03-27 15:54:48

Yeah, it does look like something is amiss here.  One of those supposed-accomplice accounts registered during the last hour of the amulet contest.  Both accounts have email addresses at the same domain.  Both accounts played no games except against each other (and against CD's account) during the last hour of the contest.

Hopefully, CD will join us and describe the exploit in detail.

It doesn't look like he dropped the amulet over and over... just that he reliably played against one of these accomplice accounts over and over.

Which is perplexing, because I'd THINK there'd be a flurry of players right at the end that would make this hard.



Oh, I just figured out what he did... even if there was a flurry of other players.


Create an amulet game and wait for +30 seconds to pass (so the random timer is passed---the next game started WILL pull an opponent for you).

Create a game with your alt account and quickly join it from your second alt.  Bingo, you're playing your alt account.

So... it seems like there were just few enough players that during that hour so no one else was starting a game during that 30 second period each time.


It seems like making the random range wider would help (a random time between 0 and 2 minutes).  Obviously, that would keep the amulet-holder waiting longer, which is a nasty side-effect

The other thing is that the alt accounts could join/leave each other repeatedly during the 2 minutes, giving them a good chance of getting picked whenever the random timer is ready...  so maybe a time delay isn't a solution here.



DAMMIT... collusion, you are the bane of my existence as a multiplayer game designer!

#281 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-27 15:31:35

Right, that can happen because the flush only happens every two minutes, and the deadline is maintained separately from the flush.  I'll fix it to cap it at 0.

#282 Re: Main Forum » OffTopic: C/C++ Networking » 2015-03-26 20:24:31

Well... I don't know that there's a way to code networking that doesn't get a little hairy...

It's called a Unix beard for a reason...

#283 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-26 17:42:25

Re:  active user count shown in game:

Wow, that's a good idea!

Why didn't someone think of that back in v10?


I think folding the amulet leaderboards into the game involves too many big changes for a temporary contest like this.  But active user count makes sense even when no contest is running.

#284 Re: Main Forum » OffTopic: C/C++ Networking » 2015-03-26 17:40:09

Socket programming is pretty arcane.  There are so many settings and such.

I always just copied example code (oh... THOSE are the settings you need...) and wrote a wrapper around it to simplify things.  I recall this ancient "Unix Socket FAQ" being really helpful:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/socket/


I think SDL has a wrapper for platform-independent sockets.  SDL is also useful for other stuff (keyboard, mouse, sound).

#285 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-26 05:10:07

Supposed to end at 8pm US PST tomorrow night.  The remaining time looks right to me...

#286 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-26 00:56:29

Okay, v20 has no protocol changes, so I'm not shutting down the server and forcing an instant upgrade.

Instead, you just have to restart you client and v20 will be downloaded for you.

#287 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on amulet contest » 2015-03-26 00:55:02

Right... if there are N=2 amulets out, there need to be 7 active players (2 * N + 3) before another one is dropped.

#288 Main Forum » v20 released » 2015-03-26 00:52:08

jasonrohrer
Replies: 0

This release adds a chime for amulet holders when their opponent is ready.

In v19, the game would switch to the amulet-game stake display and wait for the player to press OK and only play the chime after switching to the game screen.

#289 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-26 00:10:24

Yes, working on this right now and will release v20 shortly.

It was one thing that I didn't notice while testing because I was alway sitting there actively testing it, not playing for real!

#290 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on amulet contest » 2015-03-25 21:32:38

But did it show that you lost money?  Or did you get all your money back?

It is possible for a game to start right before you click cancel.  In that case, you will see the game-end report.  However, in v19, it was fixed to NOT penalize you in this case, because you never requested the starting game state.

#291 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on amulet contest » 2015-03-25 21:17:03

Yeah, should fix this.  Sorry about that!

#292 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-25 20:16:56

And REALLY glad we're testing this another time....

#293 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-25 20:16:42

Yeah, just fixed this so that the holder is only listed once even if they lead.  Oops!

#294 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-25 20:01:22

Added a link to a summary page (see above).

And amulets are now fixed so that they can actually be handed out.

#295 Re: Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-25 19:49:55

Yeah, thanks for noticing that.  I fixed the wording.

Also, there's currently a bug where the presence of the old amulet records in the table is preventing the new amulets from being handed out.  Fixing that asap.

#296 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on amulet contest » 2015-03-25 18:48:32

That page should also probably list the top score for each, so you can know what score you need to be trying to beat.

#297 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on amulet contest » 2015-03-25 18:48:00

Ahem... write down the symbol.

C'mon, Jere, how long have you known me?  smile


I'll work on a better "who's holding what" report page.

#298 Main Forum » Second Test Amulet Contest with MONEY Prizes » 2015-03-25 18:43:46

jasonrohrer
Replies: 25

I've fixed all of the issues that occurred in the first test contest, but the new code needs to be tested.

I've created 3 more test amulets.  There is no physical prize for these, just a cash prize that will be deposited into your account.

The full rules are below, but to summarize:  Each amulet is held by one player at a time.  Amulets pass from player to player throughout the contest.  Amulets are invisible unless you're holding one.  Take an amulet from another player by being the last one standing in a game against them.  Rack up points on the amulet while holding it by being the last one standing in as many games as possible.  Pass the amulet to someone else when they are the last player standing in a game against you.  Whoever has the most points on an amulet by the end wins that amulet's prize money.

Here are the amulets:


zayin.png
Prize:  $100
http://cordialminuet.com/gameServer/ser … mulet_id=7



het.png
Prize:  $50
http://cordialminuet.com/gameServer/ser … mulet_id=8



tet.png
Prize:  $25
http://cordialminuet.com/gameServer/ser … mulet_id=9



A summary page listing the status of all live amulets is here:

http://cordialminuet.com/gameServer/ser … et_summary



Intial Amulet Distribution

Amulets are dropped into the player pool at the start to players that are the last one standing in their game (last in the game who still has coins---if you leave while your opponent still has coins, your opponent will be the last player standing).

Unheld amulets are reserved from being dropped into the player pool when the pool is too small to support more amulets.


Amulet Game Rules

When you hold an amulet, you can start an amulet game by pressing AMULET GAME on the NEW GAME screen.  You must have at least $3 in your account to start an amulet game.  You will be paired up with a random opponent at stakes of $3 or less.  You will find out the stakes when the game starts.  Your opponent does not know you have the amulet unless they win it from you.  If you don't currently hold an amulet, playing normal games with stakes at or below $3 will give you a chance of getting pulled into an amulet game against an amulet holder.

If you are the last player standing, you get 200 points on that amulet.  If your opponent is the last player standing, they take the amulet from you, and they get 200 points on that amulet.

As an amulet holder, you can only win points on an amulet or risk losing it in AMULET GAMES.  You can freely play non-amulet games without affecting the amulet that you are holding.

HOWEVER, you lose one point every minute that you hold the amulet.

After two hours of no amulet game activity, you drop the amulet back into the player pool.  You can also drop it at any time by pressing DROP AMULET on the NEW GAME screen.


Final Winners

Whoever has the most points on an amulet at the end of the contest wins the money associated with that amulet.  Prizes are assigned starting with the most valuable amulet first, and each player can win at most one prize.

#299 Main Forum » v19 Released » 2015-03-25 17:40:15

jasonrohrer
Replies: 0

This fixes issues that were encountered during the first test amulet contest.  Full change log here:

http://sourceforge.net/p/hcsoftware/Cor … ngeLog.txt

#300 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on amulet contest » 2015-03-25 16:50:09

Caravan:  the idea was that tournaments are a little bit too intimidating for brand new players, so it's not a great fit for a launch contest.  We held a few tournaments in the past, and the same handful of people ended up winning each one.  Especially if there was an entry fee, that would be a "no way" for most new players.  So I needed something that would fold into regular play of the game as a special bonus thing.

On Thursday, I sent out an email to everyone who had played the game in the last 28 days.  That was over 200 people.  So, I think it brought a bunch of new people back for a bit, but they thinned out by the end.

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