CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

??????

You are not logged in.

#51 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on final AMULET CONTEST PAGE » 2015-05-20 22:11:14

..

I could also just set up a private CM server on a server I have access to and give you admin access - would also be less work for me too - but I'm happy to help set it up regardless. But this was the first time I've ever set up an SQL server so I'm still pretty clueless.

#52 Re: Main Forum » Launch Tournament Results » 2015-05-20 22:06:58

..

Thank goodness you did and saved myself and others the work smile

The tied 3rd place for a copper is $10, not $5.

#53 Re: Main Forum » Out-there idea for a "better" game » 2015-05-20 08:40:03

..

Well I wouldn't be so quick to give up on a suited game mode before tweaking, players gaining more experience, and seeing what effect having the score graph has. Either way, rapid iteration.

jasonrohrer wrote:

In this game (regular CM and the suited version), there is simply too much information about what your opponent might have, especially after pick 3.  The following happens reasonably often:

--You KNOW you've won, and your opponent KNOWS you've won too.

Sure, but that adds an extra tactical consideration: try not to get into that situation after the reveal, and if you've got great numbers ideally you wouldn't give the opponent horrible numbers either, or they'll just fold.

What you seem to be saving is that CM has too much of a good thing, as you don't need to play a lot of rounds hoping to get that position of holding a sure winner and getting to squeeze your opponent. You make your own luck, and plenty of it, rather than facing the bad odds of multi-way poker. But also there's nothing that can happen that's remarkable. Sure you can get a perfect score, but it doesn't matter what the score is just as long as it's the best possible on the board.

Here's another idea: randomly generated magic squares with interesting properties, like that 1-2-3-34-35-36 example I showed. When generating those I noticed the other numbers also formed unusual patterns. There could be whole classes of 6x6 magic squares with special properties that affect game strategy which are never seen when generating without special constraints.

IIRC you added the reveal step to CM after some early testing. So removing it would get closer to the poker experience? Do you think an alt mode with it taken out again would be a worthwhile experiment? I doubt it would be a better game, but is relevant for this debate.

Would it be possible to separate Elo calculations by game type? Seems to be messing with the Elo leaderboard right now.

#54 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on final AMULET CONTEST PAGE » 2015-05-19 22:41:41

..

Yes, it was a generous and engaging contest and the amulets were marvellous prizes; thanks for all the work put into it and the game.
Alas, I was one of the ones who should have focused more on the copper days.

I also tried ironically playing once while sitting in the middle of a casino, but no one joined my game before I had to leave for my flight

That would have been fantastic.

Cobblestone, I set up a local server for playing around and might be able to help you set one up. In particular Jason hasn't updated the database initialisation for recent changes, so it's necessary to run 3 of the scripts in databaseUpdates (gameType.txt, expGameStats.txt, gameLedgerTimeIndex.txt)

#55 Re: Main Forum » Scoring rules for Experimental Game Mode » 2015-05-19 22:16:34

..
Defiant00 wrote:

One thing that immediately threw me off in this game mode is how much harder I find it to see my picks. I think it's because the symbols have so much more solid black, so you have a much smaller area on the square to see the color differences.

I also found it hard to see my picks; I actually thought at first that Jason had changed the ink blending in alt mode. The fact that I keep my monitors set quite dim could be part of the problem.

LiteS wrote:

Well, instead of the first turn you could show each board have each player choose a public card, then reveal both public cards and proceed with the normal game.

Another option: change the first column picking round. Both players still pick two columns, but both squares selected by the intersections are revealed and shared. Then two normal rounds of picking, for hands 4 numbers total. But I guess there's no way to order the two columns you pick, so it would make more sense to do it over two rounds... pretty inelegant.

#56 Re: Main Forum » Out-there idea for a "better" game » 2015-05-18 22:32:30

..

OK, seems I was misremembering about the poker hands.

To fit in a score graph the simplest solution is to use bucketing, for example place all 98X nothing hands in one bucket. This reduces from 77 nothing hands to 36. At least that's easy to understand. Would also be possible to compress the range by not graphing hands that won't be seen this game.

Regarding higher stakes being more interesting (which was in reply to the paragraph which I moved to the "Fundamental issues that limit critical mass" thread), I can see why. If you're both good players focused on the game fighting for every round then the mind reading magic happens. I really have no clue what poker has that this is missing, aside from critical mass.

#57 Re: Main Forum » Fundamental issues that limit critical mass » 2015-05-18 22:08:29

..

Considering that I didn't even complete most of my favourite games before losing interest I'm pretty surprised I'm still playing CM, though not that much before the contest and I've played fewer than 200 games. But it definitely gets a bit same-ish for me too. It's most fun when you're both trying to double-guess each other, but you might be playing on the side rather than concentrating, or your opponent is doing the same or just acting randomly, so the minds of the two players aren't meeting.

My take away is that what keeps people interested in CM is when something changes. A contest or challenge, an experimental game mode, new ante settings. Maybe you could add additional game modes or adjustable game settings to CM (not necessarily radically different games).  Currently the game very much lacks variety. Don't always use the "don't split the playerbase" argument without considering whether doing something will increase the playerbase to compensate. But I guess this should go in the other thread instead.

I don't think it matters that turning a significant profit is hopeless right now. It would matter to the poker players, but it shouldn't matter to the normal gamer. Having a few cents staked on a game is enough to make the game more dramatic and with purpose even if the amount is insignificant. This aspect of the game works perfectly!

Regarding the 'terrain' of the magic squares you mentioned, I think this comes down to thinking ahead one or two moves which I find very hard to do aside from some easy patterns; there are too many possibilities. This is the main point on which a computer could outplay a human.

#58 Re: Main Forum » Out-there idea for a "better" game » 2015-05-18 21:24:16

..

Wow, fast.

Initial impressions from a single game:

I miss the scoregraph. You can still have it. The scoregraph shows the strength of all possible "hands" you and the opponent can get, descending down the game tree. In CM hand strength is the total score, in this game you would just compute where a hand lies in a linear order of hand strength and display that, which will still show what your chance to win is.. (I haven't thought about how many different strengths there are, because I still don't know the rules!) I guess you've probably borrowed the hand ordering rules from poker, though personally I thought poker hand ranking strange as they're not ranked by rarity, and most hands are nothing. But rarity isn't necessarily what leads to most interesting tactical decisions.

Deciding what pick to choose seems considerably more difficult, even if the score graph was put back in. You can't just glance at the board and see the valuable squares. Which is the point. But double-guessing my opponent seems less pratical when the mental calculations are more complex, which could make the game less deep? (Well, the depth of double-guessing only occurred amongst focused advanced players anyway) So I'm mostly making random moves right now, especially for the first pick.


(EDIT: Moved the offtopic last paragraph to the other thread)

#59 Re: Main Forum » How to play » 2015-05-17 06:40:53

..

There isn't. It would be nice to have everything in one place.

There are keyboard controls but I don't use them and don't know what they are.

The idea with clicking on a square is that it lets you then hover over the score graph to see what the individual possible scores are, but I've never had a reason to do that. I'm not aware of any other hidden features, other than that you can hover over the squares at pretty much any time, which shows a few different things.

All play sessions are recorded and saved in the recordedGames folder. To play a session back, copy a file into the playbackGame folder. While playing back a game there are additional keyboard controls, but you must first enable them by editing settings/enableSpeedControlKeys.ini to contain a "1". They are: ^ to slow down the FPS, & for normal FPS, * through ) to speed up. (Note, on Linux vsync seems to be automatic, and has to be disabled externally (export vblank_mode=0) to increase framerate). Interrupting or reaching the end of the playback will cause DENIED BY SERVER errors, nothing to be concerned about.

There are also various other things you can adjust in settings/, like hue shifting for colour-blindness.

#60 Re: Main Forum » Emails eaten by Gmail spam filter » 2015-05-14 22:49:09

..

Note! I just checked my Gmail spam folder and discovered the email you sent out to all The Castle Doctrine purchasers from jason@thecastledoctrine.net was also in the spam bin! Man it REALLY sucks that you missed out on many thousands of potential players because of that.

(Ironically didn't do that earlier as didn't have any reason to expect an email from the server)

EDIT: I hope you will try sending out that email again from a different account. You could try to sell on the similarities between CM and TCD, as jere mentioned in another thread: the 'mind reading' aspect.

#61 Re: Main Forum » Feedback on final AMULET CONTEST PAGE » 2015-05-14 11:07:19

..

Dollar bills with sigils drawn on them.
(Because it would be too funny to mail people cash)

I'm especially amused that there were patches for Space Shuttle for the 2600; just like the real thing! That game was apparently an achievement of realism at the time.

#62 Re: Main Forum » Account Giveaway » 2015-05-14 10:52:21

..

Cool, I was actually thinking of giving away accounts on some forums, except I'm cheap and would only provide 20-50 cents per account, heh.
But my reaction is also "What does CM have to do with Satan?" No more than than secret societies and card reading and Hebrew numerology.

If you want to have people do something creative to get an account, it would be cool if they each created a small piece of some 'fan-created content' around the game. Like, do you see how the Time Cube page is an endless sequence of nonsense (an inspiration for CM's website, actually)? If they generated a nonsensical on-topic paragraph or image each someone could paste it all together and voilá!

#63 Main Forum » Emails eaten by Gmail spam filter » 2015-05-13 12:26:17

..
Replies: 5

I've heard from someone that they found the email containing their alias in gmail's spam bin, and I just noticed a post in the subreddit saying the same. Are there really two emails sent? Looking at the server source, it looks like initial deposit information, account key, and alias are all sent in a single email. In which case losing that email would be severe. If you didn't get an email, please check your spam folder and mark it not spam.

#64 Re: Main Forum » Fundamental issues that limit critical mass » 2015-05-13 10:16:25

..

There's certainly a critical mass problem, but only for higher stakes players. Because you can play 1c games for essentially free, and the game has been mostly marketed to gamers rather than gamblers and poker players, the large majority play low stakes. Right now there's no problem if you want to play 1 cent games.  I don't think I've waited more than 10 seconds for one of those since release (I only do that as a gag). So I think a steam release with fixed initial $7 balance would do little to directly fix that, other than some tiny fraction of those players deciding to go in for real money. How much does the steam userbase overlap with poker players?

If you had a steam version of the game, would Valve still disallow having the money withdrawable or depositable through external means (going to the website or downloading the real client?) There's the issue that if someone starts with $7 on steam and ends up with $1000 (as happens), they'll be upset if they can't switch to a "real" account. It might be play money to them, but it's real money to everyone else (though it would make sense to make them ineligible for prizes).

I have to disagree on some points. I don't like playing the worst players. They act randomly and irrationally so I actually have more trouble predicting them than a better player, and they're just not engaging in the mind-reading game. They're challenging in a different way to good players. I prefer to play players better than me, because I play reltatively low stakes and have a negative profit, and want to prove myself rather than make a big profit.

AnoHito wrote:

The way I put it in the chat, was that the game just doesn't offer anything for casual players. If you are not making money, it's not fun, and you will probably quit before you lose very much

Are you trying to exclude the existing playerbase, most of which are apparently playing for fun rather than profit, with the "casual" quantifier? I think the game is fun even if you're losing money, though I admit if you're losing nearly all your games you'll probably be quite demoralised.

#65 Re: Main Forum » Bachelor's thesis: Strategies in the game Cordial Minuet » 2015-05-12 14:34:30

..

I'm jealous, he beat me to it. I think it would be a nice game for serious academic research (poker is overused).

#66 Re: Main Forum » Jeopardy Alcohol 1000th game Bounty » 2015-05-12 07:49:06

..

Nicely done, and an amulet to go with it.
Though decree kerchief ended up being the first player to 1000 games!

#67 Re: Main Forum » I wrote a thing » 2015-05-11 20:59:36

..

Upvote count doesn't actually matter at all, I wasn't talking about it; I have read that it's literally meant to trick shills into thinking their votes count. Actual ranking is calculated using non-blocked upvotes.

#68 Re: Main Forum » I wrote a thing » 2015-05-11 20:50:06

..

I did reload, and even used incognito/private browsing, and I'm talking about position on news.ycombinator.com/best, not /newest. Over the years I've heard many mentions of anti-shill measures being built in.

EDIT: I also notice user karmas don't increase when I upvote their comments.

#69 Re: Main Forum » I wrote a thing » 2015-05-11 20:41:38

..

The story at the start is the most important part.

I meant that I was voting for articles a few pages behind the main page, and their ranking did not improve despite changing; I strongly suspect my votes count for nothing until it decides I'm not a shill.

#70 Re: Main Forum » I wrote a thing » 2015-05-11 20:11:38

..

You mean the first page of the 'new' page?

I tried upvoting some other articles with almost no votes, and notice it didn't increase their rankings... instead they decreased as they aged.

#71 Re: Main Forum » I wrote a thing » 2015-05-11 19:45:42

..

That is a fantastically written article. Hard to improve. The detour into the game description seems too early before much story happens? More significantly, the ending of the piece is a bit dull. When I hit "So that's my story" my thought was "What! That story didn't have an end!". I would remove those words, to the end. Also it would be good if there was something else to put in the conclusion. More information about or quotes by cullman? Also, I don't think you explained that all players are anonymous, which is very important and explains what the whole point of the twitter bot is (without that, the bot seems irrelevant). Note that the bug bounty is still running.

I resisted for years, but created a HN account for the purpose of voting up Jason's submission the other day. Luckily now I can use the noprocast setting.

Damn cool to read that you were using the twitter bot to wake you up in the middle of the night. Did you really have a profit ratio of 4 at one point?

Edit: wasn't expecting it to get posted so fast; upvoted. Edit: It's nowhere to be seen; I imagine Jason and I are heavily penalised for being new users. It's always possible to resubmit later

#72 Re: Main Forum » Jeopardy Alcohol 1000th game Bounty » 2015-05-11 19:39:06

..

Ooooh, so we don't have a leaderboard that gives the ratio of profit against initial deposit.  Maybe prizes would distort it too much (was it already discussed?). Then we could gawk at what players like JA have actually accomplished. Good advertising wink

Now I imagine JA as some poker-loving elderly southern gentleman.

#73 Re: Main Forum » Perfect Score » 2015-05-11 19:29:11

..

I'm not joking, looking at that gif makes my eardrums hurt and my forehead tense up.

#75 Re: Main Forum » Leaving: avoiding the next ante » 2015-05-11 10:39:44

..

Jason, that seems to be wrong. PlayGamePage::mLeavePenalty is set when the client receives the get_game_state response, and it's not set anywhere where else -- not calculated in the client.

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB