CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

Welcome, tigey!

Check out this thread: http://cordialminuet.com/incrementensem … php?id=151

It suggests a couple of ways you can see when people are online.

But yeah, sometimes I really want to play a game but there's nobody around. That sucks, but I know that the game is still in (semi) private testing. Hopefully once the game goes public, there'll always be somebody willing to play in your stakes range!

I know this is slightly off-topic, but it's just amazing to see somebody frame my thoughts exactly as they've been forming in my head. In the thread about "Why do you play?", Jason's example of play money in online poker is exactly how I feel here-- even though in CM, it's real money. In online play money poker, where you get automatic refills to $1000, once you hit $5000, you're far more careful with your money. So in CM, I might have hit, say, $0.10 in profit playing penny games, which is perhaps the equivalent of $5000 in online poker play money: both of them have no value (or nearly no value), but you still know how hard you've worked to earn that, and you don't want it to disappear. In the "real world," I make more than $0.10 when I go make myself a cup of tea at work. In CM, that $0.10 involved playing and winning (and losing) a lot of games.

So, to bring this back on topic... Yeah, I don't think amulet holders should have completely randomized stakes (I would hate to be excited about touching a gold amulet... only to lose both the amulet and $2 in my next game). 10% of the bankroll seems good: hopefully it doesn't lead to too much downward pressure on stakes selection and incentive to withdraw money to increase the odds of getting amulet games (I think the $3 cheque fee might also be a disincentive for the latter).

Hmm, the reason I liked the 5% figure was because it lined up with Asminthe's advice on bankroll management. That way, if I had the amulet, I could at least know that I was only playing for a certain amount. 10% could be a lot... I mean, I don't know how much some of the profit leaders on here have left in their accounts (versus what they've withdrawn), but if you have $200, you could be playing for $20 and not even know it!

But then again, having an amulet will be a really rare occurrence. And I suppose as long as the amulet holder has the clear option to play non-amulet games or "drop" their amulets in cheap stakes games, then that's not a problem. As I've been writing this, I now also think that 10% would make things more interesting...

Also re: collusion through penny games: I expect that a lot of new players will be playing penny games, so I suppose it's not that likely a colluder will be matched with his alt. However, an experienced player holding an amulet could beat up on newbies to rack up wins at that level... An experienced player would need an alt account with only a small balance to make that work, but that makes it unlikely they'll get the amulet again with that account once they drop it...

And of course, I'm sure you don't want everyone just playing penny games. That would make the tribute rather low.

Ooh, getting excited! (And with my luck, the contest will run the week I'm on holiday... Any indication yet of a release date?)

Questions:

1) So the amulet holder's score for the amulet currently held is reduced by one every hour. Like many on here, I find a game can take 30-60 minutes. It feels like, if I'm holding the amulet, I'll really be running on a treadmill to gain amulet points. If I win a game that takes an hour, my net gain will be zero (plus one for winning, minus one for taking an hour to do so). Have I understood the rules correctly?

2) Have you ditched the idea of the game being worth no money, with only the amulet (and/or amulet point) being awarded as a prize? If not, I guess that needs to be in the rules.

Looking forward to being PERSUADED to participate by rules written in an IMPACTFUL style.

OK, I know this is partially tongue-in-cheek, but I'm curious: how much does the "money factor" actually contribute to the excitement?

I'm still sticking to low stakes until I have a better hold on what I'm doing, but I still find the game very exciting, even when I'm only playing for a couple of cents. Now, I know that's still "real money," but really, it's sort of not. In a way, even $20 isn't "real money:" your life's not going to change dramatically if you lose $20 while playing this game. Then again, losing $20 a day over a whole week might...

My point is: Jason has said that the "playing for real money" aspect is the beating heart of the game, and it just wouldn't be the same without it. But how much do you reckon playing for real money factors into your actual enjoyment of the game? Personally, even when I only have a penny invested in a game, my heart still pounds right before the final reveal...

Indeed! :S

The two word names are evocative, but ambiguous ("Lubricant Woods," for example). But something like Nail Grandmother Bosom... Doesn't leave much to the imagination!

BTW, I've just seen someone with possibly the best name ever: Welcome to the game, Quest Emporium!

Yeesh, this certainly is tricky!

I like the amulet idea, but every time we turn around, we realize there's another chance for collusion (or to change player behaviour in such a way that new players won't get to experience the actual core game properly).

I went to the Cordial Minuet teaser page and had a look around, just to get any ideas from there. Short of gifting players with marrow from the left leg of a wolf and a case of St. Lucia wood, I couldn't see much to exploit from there. Except...

I haven't thought this through at all, but Scrabble tiles appear prominently in both the trailer and the teaser page. Could they somehow be used? Of course, we don't want new players thinking Cordial Minuet is some kind of word game...

I love reading Jason's interesting ideas for a launch contest. Reading them, I imagine him typing with his hair on fire. Then, we come in with our input (also interesting ideas), and we all realize how difficult it will be to push these blocks of ice into the fire...

I've been following this thread. From what I've read, there are seven central things a launch contest will need to do:

1) Most importantly, it should draw new players in, get already registered players (testers) playing again, and get everybody to play a lot.

2) It should have "water cooler appeal" and generate "buzz," the way "Steal Real Money" did. A contest name that grabs people's attention and makes them want to check it out. Also prizes that turn heads. Big money is always good, but interesting physical prizes can be appealing, too (and may be more in keeping with the nature of the game).

3) It must be skill-based, both in keeping with the nature of the game and to prevent the game from running afoul of any laws.

4) While skill-based, the contest must also give everybody a chance to win something: established players can shine, but new players also stand a fighting chance.

5) It must prevent any form of collusion or cheating, because that would defeat the purpose of the contest. After all, the core game asks people to deposit money and play against an anonymous opponent over the internet. If people feel that the game is not fair, then $2 is all they will ever deposit.

6) It should be simple to understand. The more complicated the rules, the less likely new players will be to give it a go.

7) And of course, from the practical side: the liabilities for Jason (prize money, logistics of creating and sending out prizes) should be able to be forecast with precision in advance.

So that seems to be the core of what we're aiming for.

I think all of the ideas are interesting here, but the one that really grabbed me is the football idea and now, the "gold, silver, and copper" amulets idea. The idea seems to tick most of the boxes on my little checklist. It seems quite simple and straightforward, and so far, I can't see any opportunities for serious cheating as long as the conditions Jason met are imposed (e.g. can't play the same person twice while holding an amulet, 200-coin leaving penalty). Everybody has a chance at an amulet game, and anybody could win it (though skilled players should be able to hold onto it for longer than others). And the best way to encounter an amulet? Why, play lots of games! And the best way to win the physical amulet (a neat prize!)? Play lots of games!

So to me, all that's left are two things:

a) Figuring out the initial distribution of the amulets, such that it's not based on luck. Perhaps the idea of the first X people after Y o'clock who deposit money get it? Or the first Z people who open a game after Y o'clock? Or maybe some of the leaderboard stats?

b) The name of the contest. The hook. Perhaps a name and an announcement in keeping with the style of the game teaser page (perhaps something that could have come out of The Secret self-help book: "You are an antenna, broadcasting energy into the universe. Send out energy on just the right frequency, and the Amulet will come to you." OK, obviously something better than that, but yeah. The teaser page is so funny and interesting; I'm sure its style can be used to publicize and generate interest in the contest).

I also like Jere's idea of the "carnival" aspect, where it seems like there are chances to win something around every corner. It can't be too luck-based, I suppose, but it should reward people just for playing a lot. But again, most of the criteria that could be used for those prizes might be subject to manipulation/collusion...

Whatever is decided upon, I'm sure it will be interesting. Getting excited!

That's definitely part of it. There's no better feeling than knowing you have a win, and slowly baiting your opponent into meeting your raises... But even when I'm on the losing side of this situation (which happens more often that I'd care to admit), it's still satisfying somehow. Perhaps it's because I don't feel like I was beaten by "the god of chance," but rather by an opponent who just got good at reading me and/or outfoxed me in the betting. Or maybe their RNG just handed them a victory.

I also think the whole setup is really clever and fascinating. It seems so simple on the surface, but the strategy (and I think using a RNG on occasion is a strategy) can really get quite deep.

The reversals of fortune are fun, too. I mean, I'm only playing for low stakes right now, but still it's exciting watching the coins go back and forth, and even when it's my opponent who ends up with the lion's share of the coins at the end, I still feel like it was an exciting game-- even if it was played for less than a nickel.

And also, it's fun shouting stuff at the computer screen, not having to worry about keeping a "poker face."

I love the way you roll.

It all makes sense, but it's just perhaps because I'm so conditioned to signing up for something, creating a password, reading (or skimming... or not reading at all...) a user agreement... I guess I just expect it all as part and parcel of activating a web service. The change is refreshing.