CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

Dan_Dan84

Member

Registered: 2015-02-14

Posts: 106

Random questions about game features

So I'm new here, but I've played a few games (even some that weren't against our resident bot!). Let me just say that it's a fascinating concept and, I think it's very well executed. I just really hope that the game doesn't get derailed by legal challenges/decisions or someone discovering a foolproof way to "crack" the game. I think it's really cool, and I want to be able to play it for a long time!

I've got a few questions about game features, as I understand we're among the final release candidates (I predict that Friday, March 13th will be the release date, but fingers crossed it might be even earlier!). Now, I've read almost every post in the forum (including the difficult ones with lots of math, programming, and gambling terminology), so I don't think I'm duplicating anything that's already been discussed, but sorry in advance if I ask something that's already been addressed elsewhere.

1) Now the first thing I don't understand: sometimes in the number reveal round, my opponent's number was revealed before I chose my number. I can't remember what the circumstances were, for example, maybe I had an automatic win, i.e. both my possible numbers were higher than theirs. But I remember thinking it was odd, especially since their reveal might affect what you choose to reveal. This has happened to me only rarely, so maybe it's only triggered when it doesn't matter which number your opponent chooses...?

2) I've read about user requests to get more graph info when you hover over the board, which were implemented in v14. Is there a way to make it clearer just what info is being given? Because right now, I'm not 100% clear on what info I'm getting when I hover over the board, and if only some people understand this, it could give (even more of) an advantage to more experienced players. Of course it doesn't have to be in-game explanations. But maybe just a tutorial or text explanation outside the client.

3) The game chimes when you start a game and somebody joins (I love the chime sound, by the way. The sound design is so minimalist, so the chime really stands out). But while you're waiting for an opponent, other available games might pop onto the screen. Now, seeing as how there aren't all that many active players at any given time, I tend to leave CM on in the background while doing other things. I would like to know, however, if someone starts another game that I might like to join. Maybe a more low-key sound to signal this? If people find it annoying, could that sound be toggled on/off?

4) Now just a couple of random questions about admin stuff:

a) Can two people use the same computer and have different CM accounts? Because right now one gets logged in automatically, based on the e-mail and key stored in the local files, as I understand it. Also, it feels weird to have a shortcut on my desktop to an application where money is stored. It may not be my life's savings, but still. It feels odd. And I've read elsewhere on the forums that user-created password protection is not being considered for this game.

b) I'm just curious about whether there will have to be user agreements when the game is officially released. I mean, while many of us play for pennies, and as pre-release players, we know what we've gotten into, the fact is some might play for larger sums post-release. They'll have to understand what they're getting into, e.g. if you start a new game and an opponent joins while you're away, they could take seven coins if you don't get back in time (ante plus leaving penalty); or you'll have to pay a leaving penalty if you get disconnected; or hell, in our litigious society, something about the fact that you're responsible for your account and betting decisions, which could lead to financial loss. I mean, I know Jason is on record as saying that he believes in personal responsibility and doesn't want to play a "nanny role," but it only takes one person to misunderstand the game, lose a sum of money, and then get the game some unwanted attention. I know Jason has said he is prepared to fight a legal battle on the legality of the game, but to deal with a civil suit from a disgruntled player... Ugh.

Anyway, these are just a few things that popped into my head while playing the game and browsing through the forums. Honestly, I'm just happy to have gotten the chance to try out the game pre-release and see the conversations and even "metagames" that have grown around it!

jere

Member

Registered: 2014-11-23

Posts: 298

Re: Random questions about game features

Welcome aboard. Really good questions here.

1) There's no situation in which you get this information early. My guess  is that you had your mouse over a red tile and it was showing you what would happen if your opponent actually got that tile. You generally want to keep your mouse off the board unless you're actively trying get a preview.

2) Depends on the tile. Like I said, if it is red, then you are asking to see what the scores look like assuming the opponent has that tile.

If you mouse over an unassigned, but colored tile (meaning they are available, but you have your slider on them), then you will see what happens if you get that tile (green) or if your opponent gets that tile (red).

If the tile is not colored at all, it's yet to be awarded. And v14 added the ability to see what the scores would like if you got that tile (the implication being that the opponent could not have any scores in the same row/column). Early in the game, these previews are not super helpful. In the 2nd turn however (after you've made your 2nd picks), you may be able to use the score preview to to determine that, for instance, you already have a guaranteed win. That's not the only use case, but it's the most salient one:

3) Not a bad idea.

Last edited by jere (2015-02-14 17:32:25)

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Canto Delirium: a Twitter bot for CM. Also check out my strategy guide!

claspa

Member

Registered: 2015-01-15

Posts: 72

Re: Random questions about game features

1) Now the first thing I don't understand: sometimes in the number reveal round, my opponent's number was revealed before I chose my number. I can't remember what the circumstances were, for example, maybe I had an automatic win, i.e. both my possible numbers were higher than theirs. But I remember thinking it was odd, especially since their reveal might affect what you choose to reveal. This has happened to me only rarely, so maybe it's only triggered when it doesn't matter which number your opponent chooses...?

Happened to me once too (when playing Clock Form).

Dan_Dan84

Member

Registered: 2015-02-14

Posts: 106

Re: Random questions about game features

Thanks so much, Jere, for the explanations about what info you get when hovering over squares. That's just the kind of info that I think would need to go into a longer, publicly available explanation of the game and its features. We want new players to be intrigued about how deep the game goes, not frustrated that somehow their opponent always gets the higher score!

With that said, there's no better feeling than seeing the graph indicate you have a guaranteed win.

1) Now the first thing I don't understand: sometimes in the number reveal round, my opponent's number was revealed before I chose my number. I can't remember what the circumstances were, for example, maybe I had an automatic win, i.e. both my possible numbers were higher than theirs. But I remember thinking it was odd, especially since their reveal might affect what you choose to reveal. This has happened to me only rarely, so maybe it's only triggered when it doesn't matter which number your opponent chooses...?

Happened to me once too (when playing Clock Form).

Yeah, I think it happened to me while playing Clock Form, too. It wasn't just because I was accidentally hovering over that square. The rows and columns around their revealed number darkened, which only happens (or should happen) after you've revealed your number. Is it a bug, then? Perhaps something triggered by Clock Form and/or its style of play?

..

Member

Registered: 2014-11-21

Posts: 259

Re: Random questions about game features

I had a look at the server source code and I think I can confirm that there is a bug (steps 1-4 is speculation):

1. Players finish betting after round 3
2. Player 1 is using the official client, and is waiting for coins to move
3. Player 2 is a bot, and acts immediately, sending reveal to server, either not waiting for the animation or playing it more quickly than Player 1
4. Player 1 finally calls get_game_state after the animation is done
5. Server cm_printGameState:
5.1 line 5913: if( $inHideOpponentSecretMoves && ! $reveal ) {  is true, so server will try to hide certain opponent moves
5.2 line 5917: $theirReveal gets set to row they revealed
5.3 line 5928: $theirReveal != $moves[$i] prevents the server from hiding their move for the revealed row

Last edited by .. (2015-02-15 09:18:34)

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Random questions about game features

Yes, that is likely a bug where information might leak.  I'll take a look.  There's also concern about a modded client that could keep calling get_game_state over and over, waiting for the opponent's reveal to finally be posted even before we post our reveal.  It's shouldn't let any reveal go through until they're both received, regardless of the timing of the calls.

Regarding the other questions that weren't answered yet...

I don't want TOO much chiming going on.  Yeah, you suggested that it could be turned off separately.  I think waiting for an opponent over the long term will be much less of an issue in the future when the player base grows.  Currently, it only chimes when the game REALLY needs you to wake up.

Two people on the same computer just need separate CordialMinuet folders to have separate accounts.

There's no plan for user passwords in this game.  It's my belief (as explained elsewhere) that passwords are usually the weakest link in any security system.  They're used everywhere, with everyone asking you to create a password for almost everything, even when passwords make no sense.

For the vast majority of players, their computer is secure, and asking for a password every time the game starts isn't necessary.  Most people use very weak passwords that I wouldn't trust to protect real money transactions anyway.

If your computer is not secure, just clear the account details before you quit the game.  Look for the CLEAR button on the Deposit screen.  Maybe I could add an option to ALWAYS clear the account details upon quitting the game, because I suppose people who would want to clear it always would often forget.

No plans for user agreements.  Companies have to throw that kind of stuff at you because they can't represent themselves in court, so they are extremely cautious legally.  I'm not afraid of frivolous lawsuits, because I can represent myself, so a frivolous lawsuit will cost me nothing.  A company will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal fees, even if they win in the end.

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Random questions about game features

The bug with the revealed square leaking if one player is operating faster than the other has been fixed on the live server.  There was a similar bug with bets leaking if one player is operating faster---that's also been fixed.

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Random questions about game features

Also added a feature to the EXISTING ACCOUNT login screen where you can specify that account details are NOT saved locally.  This will be released as part of v16.

Dan_Dan84

Member

Registered: 2015-02-14

Posts: 106

Re: Random questions about game features

No plans for user agreements.  Companies have to throw that kind of stuff at you because they can't represent themselves in court, so they are extremely cautious legally.  I'm not afraid of frivolous lawsuits, because I can represent myself, so a frivolous lawsuit will cost me nothing.  A company will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal fees, even if they win in the end.

I love the way you roll.

It all makes sense, but it's just perhaps because I'm so conditioned to signing up for something, creating a password, reading (or skimming... or not reading at all...) a user agreement... I guess I just expect it all as part and parcel of activating a web service. The change is refreshing.