How to Avoid Jeopardy Alcohol

AnoHito · 2015-01-17 07:30:12

Okay, so I don't know who Jeopardy Alcohol is, or why their picking game is so good, but I do know there is no one on this forum that would do well playing them. So, for now let's all work toward avoiding them until they give up. This is the Cordial Minuet meta game at it's finest.

The steps are:

1. Open two windows the Cordial Minuet profit rankings.
2. Now find an already existing game to join. So far I have only see Jeopardy Alcohol create games in the $0.01 to $1.00 range, though I'm not positive they will stick to this limit.
3. Play the first round, and fold if the other player raises. You can play the round through if they don't.
4. Leave the game as soon as the first round is over.
5. Now refresh one of the two profit ranking windows and compare them. If Jeopardy Alcohol's profit went up slightly (or down if you actually won), you know they are afoot.
6. If not, wait to see if the person whose game you just left recreates it for the same amount and rejoin it.
7. ???
8. Profit.

You can also just keep the profit ranking open for about ten minutes and refresh it to see if Jeopardy Alcohol's profit has changed. Then you will have a fairly good indicator if they are even online. I might even create an automatic script to periodically check if they are active. Or even check for the activity of all the top players.

And now, we wait for Jason to limit the high score charts so they only update once a day.

.. · 2015-01-17 13:51:19

Gosh! That seems obnoxious. But not to fear, I have the perfect strategy for avoiding AnoHito!

1. Follow AnoHito's procedure exactly, but instead of avoiding jeopardy alcohol, look out for forethought tobacco, AnoHito's alias
2. ???
3. Profit
4. Lose all the profits to jeopardy alcohol

jere · 2015-01-17 13:58:20

Yea.... I mean, don't you think it would be obnoxious if everyone followed this and everyone was leaving on the first round? Wouldn't it be easier and more reliable to just withdraw your money and uninstall?

I for one would really like to play Jeopardy Alcohol even though I'm sure they'll kick my ass. There's something to be learned there for sure!

This topic brings up an idea I've been pondering. Jason: are you against the idea of a scraper hitting the leaderboards?

.. · 2015-01-17 14:02:48

What would you do with your scraper? I think the idea of watching the scoreboards to avoid people is pretty uncool, and don't do that even though I do track (or maybe scrap) the scoreboards.

Last edited by .. (2015-01-17 14:07:03)

jere · 2015-01-17 14:11:22

Oh, so maybe that answers that question if someone is already doing it? I'd probably make some sort of stream of matches. For example:

$1 - JEOPARDY ALCOHOL vs. FORETHOUGHT TOBACCO - final score: $0.81, $1.15

The accuracy of this would depend on how often it checked (and how many pages back) because multiple games at the same stake ending around the same time could confuse it. Usually it'd be a good approximation I think. It would give AnoHito exactly what he's asking for (and many of us do this manually anyway). I refresh the boards all the time, not just to see who I could be playing, but to witness what's going down on among other players.

It'd be pretty cool to have had this for Doorman vs. Clemency.

Anyway, I've been itching to make another twitter bot and this might be perfect for that.

I think the idea of watching the scoreboards to avoid people is pretty uncool

Well for me it's more about knowing who I'm playing. Sometimes I'm looking for someone specific (like I've been trying to see when I play Jeopardy because I want to know what's that like). Or I want to make a mental note based on the strategy.

This kind of stuff somewhat goes against the inherent workings of the game, but based on what Jason has said before, he's cool with a lot of third party stuff. In TCD, it was a huge thing to find out what your name was (you weren't told by the game) and to discuss the neighborhood going ons with the community.

Last edited by jere (2015-01-17 14:15:00)

computermouth · 2015-01-17 14:16:31

Oh, don't be such weenies. All of this will be nullified once the game is opened to public and user count grows.

cullman · 2015-01-17 21:18:09

Yeah I don't like this, why would we want to alienate the best players? AnoHito, maybe you are joking but let's take your strategy to it's logical conclusion. We use this strategy to push out the best players, until AnoHito is the best player and you are pushed out. Not a great end game for anyone.

AnoHito · 2015-01-17 22:41:06

This was actually a sort of tongue in cheek way to illustrate how the current high score charts are exploitable.

AnoHito wrote:

And now, we wait for Jason to limit the high score charts so they only update once a day.

Didn't anyone read that line? -_- The lesson here is, don't ever take me too seriously.

...but, if Jason decides to not fix this, it's better that people are aware that the system can be exploited. It's only fair.

That aside, does anyone want to help me watch out for Jeopardy Alcohol and record their matches with him? He's doing something right, and I'd like to know what it is.

.. · 2015-01-17 22:42:41

Oh I definitely would love to know when I'm playing the top rated player too. Or any of the other big names.

In particular, maybe it would be possible to lift anonymity a little bit in tournaments? Right now tournaments are about making a lot of profit (most of which will be off the worst players) in random match up, in which case knowing who you're playing against can be easily abused (unless you can't leave a table without forfeiting everything). However we can contemplate tournaments focused on finding the 'top' players, as in single elimination or round robin. In such a tournament anonymity actually gets in the way of the competitive spirit (also, allowing spectators for the final games would be cool!)

Didn't anyone read that line? -_- The lesson here is, don't ever take me too seriously.

Edit: Well, that's why I made a joking reply to your post. I think many of us agree that not knowing who your opponent is actually detracts something from the experience (while adding something else). I think we'd all like to know what J.A. is doing if they're as good as you say (I haven't played them).

Last edited by .. (2015-01-17 22:47:30)

Omnibot · 2015-01-17 23:54:19

Being anonymous is one reason I kind of like playing poker on bovada.lv - No one can track you outside of the current game Makes it much more fun for me to change play styles, just like CM.

claspa · 2015-01-18 14:46:00

I prefer smart opponents. Playing against Jeopardy Alcohol could be quite inspiring.

Omnibot · 2015-01-18 18:57:28

I think he's a bit smarter at playing the system than playing the game after getting 3 matches against him yesterday.

jasonrohrer · 2015-01-18 20:21:42

Wow, JA has really stirred things up.

I don't know how to fix the leaderboards more. At least you can't tell who you're playing NOW, but by leaving and giving someone a little profit, you can look for the increase.

Maybe the leaderboards need to be rounded, kinda like The Castle Doctrine balances were rounded. So, you can't dump a penny to JA and then see his balance go up.

That kinda conflicts with the aesthetic of the game, though, with sub-cent precision displayed everywhere else.

Instituting a delayed update is pretty messy, because this is all based on the live data, and the live data is, of course, current. To have a delay, the leaderboard would have to be in a separate table that got re-generated on some fixed interval from the live data.

This is made extra painful by the fact that there's more than one leaderboard, meaning that there would be a bunch of these mirror tables that would need to be made. Currently, each leaderboard uses the same code, simply specifying its own unique sort order and display column, pulled from the live data.

Hmm... maybe something more general purpose, like a text-based cache for the leaderboards that simply caches the HTML and a date, and only refreshes that HTML cache when it gets stale enough.

CordialMinuetAimbot · 2015-01-20 07:01:10

JA is beatable, I've won a couple times against him... but he is also pretty effing good and he folds when he doesn't start off very well so he picks games he is better luck winning from the start.

I've got my strategies and we've had a few matches where it has been so close but he has a talent of getting just a few digits higher than me overall.

CordialMinuetAimbot · 2015-01-20 07:21:01

And either there is a connection issue or JA quits often before either player loses all their stash and then starts new games right after (at different values).

CordialMinuetAimbot · 2015-01-20 07:33:36

EDIT: I wrote this, but then realized it could have been my fault (or his) if one of us didn't make a choice in time... JA strategy possibly debunked

----------
Just figured out one of JA's strategies...

He puts up a game for between $5 and $15, he will play a few rounds and not raise much, if ever. Then when he is able to get about a 10% or more lead HE QUITS... so instead of playing the game out and risking losing any of that money, he quits and takes 50 cents or more home to the bank. The only games I've seen him go all in on are the ones that I've initiated it.

I guess this is one way to play the game... or play the system

Last edited by CordialMinuetAimbot (2015-01-20 09:18:34)

CordialMinuetAimbot · 2015-01-20 08:12:59

Update / Question:

If you don't commit to your turn before the timer expires do you get booted from the game? I tend to think about my move until the very last minute and I think this is happening to me.

P.S. Sorry for the multiple posts in a row

Last edited by CordialMinuetAimbot (2015-01-20 08:13:40)

Omnibot · 2015-01-20 08:37:06

Yeah if it times out you lose your ante (or bets if it's not the first pick) and get booted. Don't delay!

computermouth · 2015-01-20 19:20:52

CordialMinuetAimbot wrote:

He puts up a game for between $5 and $15, he will play a few rounds and not raise much, if ever. Then when he is able to get about a 10% or more lead HE QUITS... so instead of playing the game out and risking losing any of that money, he quits and takes 50 cents or more home to the bank. The only games I've seen him go all in on are the ones that I've initiated it.
I guess this is one way to play the game... or play the system

Doesn't everyone do this? The LEAVE button is there for a reason. Get money -> run with it. If I'm playing anything over $1 and feel like I'm playing against someone who is as good or better than me, I try to get out after a 20% chip lead.

jasonrohrer · 2015-01-20 21:20:04

So, the leaderboards are now cached for 5 minutes before they are updated again.

So, you can't just refresh the leaderboard to figure out who you just played against anymore.

The 5 minute interval can be changed on the server to whatever interval we want.

claspa · 2015-01-21 03:09:12

I am not sure I can follow this. What is the "harm" knowing in hindsight against whom you played?

jasonrohrer · 2015-01-21 05:20:29

If there are few players online, and you're trying to avoid some particular player (or search for some known easy player), you can lose one coin to your partner and then leave the match, and refresh the leaderboards to see who you just lost one coin to. Since there are so few players online, you can start a new game immediately and likely re-join with that player who will also be looking for another game. And then you'll have a good idea of who you're playing. Or you may want to NOT create a new match, if the other person online right now is someone you're trying to avoid.

The leaderboards were intended to allow people to track their own progress, relative to others, over time. They were NOT intended to allow people to track moment-to-moment detailed behavior of other players.

claspa · 2015-01-21 14:43:42

OK, I see. It's more about the immediate possibility to track down your former opponent. The twitter posts are still fine.

jere · 2015-01-21 14:46:41

I was playing JA last night a bit. They were doing the leave-as-soon-as-ahead thing. Yea, leaving at the right time is a skill, but it's also incredibly frustrating to play against.

It was really hard to tell what their picking strategy was. Often, it seemed like "one high number" but there was enough variation that it was hard to predict. Overall, I think their success comes from an aggressive betting game. There were definitely a lot of bluffs going on. The last game I played they raised 20 and then went all in on a bad hand.

It looks like JA had a rough night, dropping to 3rd on Elo and losing $25. I'm sure they'll be back on top soon though. They're really good!

Interesting tidbit I've harvested over the past couple days (if this OK to share): Clock Form has played the most games and Jeopardy Alcohol the second most. Something like 180 and 75 games respectively the last time I checked and that's just in a few couple of days.

Last edited by jere (2015-01-21 14:50:03)

jere · 2015-01-25 20:50:23

Not to be a jerk, because seriously I've lost money (in aggregate hundreds) and had wild fluctuations on Elo and it's always painful, but I have to say.... How the mighty have fallen!

JA has went from a high of I think $75 to $5. And over 300 Elo to 120. What happened? Maybe the playing field is improving? Definitely contradict's AnoHito's theory that "no one on this forum that would do well playing them."

Last edited by jere (2015-01-25 21:24:01)

CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

#1 2015-01-17 07:30:12

How to Avoid Jeopardy Alcohol

#2 2015-01-17 13:51:19

Re: How to Avoid Jeopardy Alcohol

#3 2015-01-17 13:58:20

Re: How to Avoid Jeopardy Alcohol

#4 2015-01-17 14:02:48

Re: How to Avoid Jeopardy Alcohol

#5 2015-01-17 14:11:22

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#6 2015-01-17 14:16:31

Re: How to Avoid Jeopardy Alcohol

#7 2015-01-17 21:18:09

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#8 2015-01-17 22:41:06

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#9 2015-01-17 22:42:41

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#10 2015-01-17 23:54:19

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#11 2015-01-18 14:46:00

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#12 2015-01-18 18:57:28

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#13 2015-01-18 20:21:42

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#14 2015-01-20 07:01:10

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#15 2015-01-20 07:21:01

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#16 2015-01-20 07:33:36

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#17 2015-01-20 08:12:59

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#18 2015-01-20 08:37:06

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#19 2015-01-20 19:20:52

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#20 2015-01-20 21:20:04

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#21 2015-01-21 03:09:12

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#22 2015-01-21 05:20:29

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#23 2015-01-21 14:43:42

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#24 2015-01-21 14:46:41

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#25 2015-01-25 20:50:23

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