CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

LiteS

Member

Registered: 2015-01-27

Posts: 82

Game Behavior: Clicking

Currently on rounds 2 and after, clicking on a red number will lock that number as your educated guess for your opponent's row/column choice. While useful, after playing for a few months of playing this functionality seems limited by one step. Current game behavior means hovering over unpicked numbers gives a preview of possible scores if you were to win that number, but if you click on a number for your opponent, the hover function is disabled. Re-enabling the hover function would require another iteration of prediction on the game (or two if two opponent numbers were selected), but I think it would be useful for advanced play.

I'm not sure how hard this would be to implement, perhaps it's too late in development for this suggestion. Is this something that the community would want to see?

More detail: I'd like to see the graph on the right update with the possible scores if I predict my opponent has the 26 and the 27 on this board by clicking on them. The reason for this is I often find myself in situations where I'm betting on my opponent having a particular number, and if I am correct, that will change the possible scores for both players in future rounds. Obviously if I am incorrect I may end up in trouble.

Cobblestone

Member

Registered: 2015-01-28

Posts: 212

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

This would be really handy, but it would have to be really obvious to the player that the graph and mouse-overs are displaying what they are because of a locked value. I'd hate to lose because I accidentally clicked the graph and didn't realize I wasn't seeing the whole picture.

claspa

Member

Registered: 2015-01-15

Posts: 72

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

Yeah, LiteS just mentioned what I was also sometimes thinking about. I like the idea.

..

Member

Registered: 2014-11-21

Posts: 259

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

Jason keeps adding more functionality to the score graph, but I still find it's not enough, and would like a totally general way to see what the scoregraph is given any set of constraints, more than just the two sliders and the marker/mouseover. Being able to set multiple markers, each either green or red (click once to get green, twice for red), which must be consistent with the sliders and already selected rows & columns, and which are temporarily overridden by mouseover, would be such a completely general solution. (The only thing it's missing is the ability to see info on what scoregraph opponent saw in previous rounds). I know Jason doesn't want to complicate the interface too much. I really like this idea so I expect I'll end up modding into my client.

Last edited by .. (2015-04-22 09:57:49)

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

Well, the other constraint is that I don't want any non-permanent marks on the paper part of the display.

I don't like video game displays that look like fake wood or stone or parchment or watercolor but then behave digitally.  That's why I stuck with pixel art for so long (it looks and behaves consistently digital).

Here, I have a simulated real-world asset in the center that behaves totally consistently.  Ink is ink, and is permanent.  The whole thing fades out at the end of the round and a new one fades in, clear of ink.  But you never see the ink flash on and off, etc.  The board itself never reacts to mouse-overs, but all the clearly-digital stuff around the board does.

So, it seems like multiple click-to-place-guess markers around the edge would get confusing pretty quickly.  For consistency, they would have to be on the edges only.  Let's say you have two red squares clicked.  That would mean two red markers on the top edge, and two on the right side.  But the intersection points of those four markers is ambiguous:

 v v 
000000
000000 <
000000
000000 <
000000

Which means you'd have to use different shaped markers to convey which one pairs with which:

 + v 
000000
000000 <
000000
000000 +
000000

Seems pretty confusing.

Also, I sometimes wonder about what counts as "skill" in the game and what the game should just hand you.  The original motivation for the score graph was that "I don't want fast arithmetic to be the main skill in this game."  Many online poker rooms have a text display that tells you what your combined hand is (like, "Hey you have 10-high straight in case you didn't notice.")  But beyond that, they show you nothing, strategy-wise.  They don't compute pot-odds for you, etc.  There is third-party software that does this stuff, but the poker board is easy to enter quickly into third-party software (number-suit, number-suit, number-suit, etc.)

Here, the board is pretty much impossible to enter into third-party software.  Though maybe software could "discover" the board if you entered the top line and the diagonal or something.  I don't know.

I feel like this is something I should table for now.  The game will be a success or flop regardless of the presence of extra strategic tools like this.  If it's a big success, we'll have lots more input from lots of hardcore, serious players, and I'll have plenty of time to add stuff like this as-needed.  If it's a flop, I've already been working on it for more than a year, and it's a pretty simple game...

..

Member

Registered: 2014-11-21

Posts: 259

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

Argh, I failed to realise the markers would be ambiguous. I'll have to think about it. I know you want to be consistent with the appearance of parchment, but that doesn't exclude placing things like small stones with carved symbols on the board.

Yikes, it's been 5 months since you opened these forums. I guess that easily adds up to a year. Certainly more important things to prioritise.

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

Well, I also avoided putting 3d objects on the board (like beads or stones) because I'm afraid that would end up looking fake (the shadows and lighting have to be just right or it reads as fake).  The parchment is a real scan.  The ink lines and paint marks are real scans.  And I found a blending mode (multiplicative) that simulates dye on paper pretty closely to what it really looks like.  So this lets me put the ink marks on the paper and the watercolors over that in a way that is pretty much photo-real (but there's no lighting, shadows, or depth to worry about).

Also... the adding/removing of a 3D object on the paper would be weird.  Does it just flash into place?  Or slide in from the side?  Or drop down from the camera?  Is there perspective when this happens?

The paint is nice because multiplicative blending allows it to "stroke" in, which is pretty much how paint would be added in real life (albeit with an invisible brush...)

Cobblestone

Member

Registered: 2015-01-28

Posts: 212

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

The only thing I can think that would fit with the current aesthetics of the game would be to circle the numbers you click with ink. Then unclicking would cause the ink to evaporate, or seep into the parchment (think Harry Potter writing in Tom Riddle's journal).

LiteS

Member

Registered: 2015-01-27

Posts: 82

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

I'll just keep using my current tactic of hovering back and forth between my guesses and using my brain to figure out "Oh, 26+27 < 26+30, so the high tick is for 30".

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Game Behavior: Clicking

Yeah, using your brain should give you an advantage!