CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Cordial Minuet on NPR

On the show To the Best of Our Knowledge, which airs on Sunday, June 7.

It's online now, though:

http://www.ttbook.org/book/luck-vs-skill

Dan_Dan84

Member

Registered: 2015-02-14

Posts: 106

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

You've designed a first-person shooter, eh? Must've missed that one...

I never get tired of hearing of the origins of the game. And when I tell people about the game, I never get tired of seeing their reaction when the number 666 comes up, or when I explain the game's anagram. That little tidbit didn't come up in this interview... Too much for NPR?

Discordant Mind

Member

Registered: 2015-05-05

Posts: 14

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

Great interview! Luck versus skill, the game as a metaphor for life -- a nice intro to the game for the intellectual NPR crowd. You describe chess as a dry game... do you think Cordial Minuet could also fit this description?

Dan_Dan84

Member

Registered: 2015-02-14

Posts: 106

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

the game as a metaphor for life

Some days it seems like you're always getting the top score, other days you just keep pulling 3's and 4's.

You describe chess as a dry game... do you think Cordial Minuet could also fit this description?

Personally, I find CM has a thrill built into it that chess simply does not have-- indeed, something no perfect information can have. True, in chess you might get some satisfaction from watching your opponent fall into your well-laid trap, which I think is akin to trapping your opponent in CM when you have the top score (and therefore have all the information that matters). The more exciting, tense moments in CM happen, I find, when you're bluffing, or when you have the second-highest score. Again, it's the uncertainy, the hidden information that creates that excitement.

I listened to the second interview in that programme, about the "Success Equation." The author of the book talks about how when there is too much skill being drawn upon in a skill-based game, that is, paradoxically, when luck starts to take over. CM is without question a game of skill, but when two pros (or even two new players) play a game together, the outcome might be more determined by luck then anything else...

card

Member

Registered: 2014-12-25

Posts: 25

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

In listening to the interview it got me thinking ... why aren't other completely skill-based games like chess available to play for money online in a similar way to CM? (You bet on each game before going into it)

Maybe they are available, but in that case I wonder why they aren't more popular. I suppose people could try to game the ELO system if enough money was on the line, so maybe that's why.

computermouth

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Registered: 2014-12-27

Posts: 134

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

"Jason Rohrer is one of the top game designers in the world."

Dang, congrats!

---

Try Linux, get free. #!++ (CrunchbangPlusPlus) is a stable distribution based on Debian 8. Keep it fast, keep it pretty.

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

In listening to the interview it got me thinking ... why aren't other completely skill-based games like chess available to play for money online in a similar way to CM? (You bet on each game before going into it)

This exists:

https://www.chessmoney.com/cm/main
http://www.velocitychess.com/

But who would play?  Certainly not me.  I'd just lose money!

There's also this, which was a big influence point for me:

http://www.royalgames.com/how_it_works.jsp

I won money consistently on Royal until the matchmaking caught up with my skill level.  Then I started winning only 50% of my games, and the rake (which is like 25%) quickly chewed me down to nothing.

Still, I HIGHLY recommend putting $10 bucks into Royal.  It's a pretty thrilling experience.

Monty Cantsin

Member

Registered: 2015-06-07

Posts: 1

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

Great interview Jason!

Do you guys know about Prismata? It's a card game with no randomness. Seems relevant. http://blog.prismata.net/2014/12/02/rem … ard-games/

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

Will check it out.

There's also the board/card game Mage Wars (see it on BGG where it is well-rated).  It's like Magic, except your deck is a full "spell book" of cards that you can leaf through and select whatever you can afford to play.  There may be other randomness in the game (like dice rolls for certain cards, I'm not sure).

Event thematically, it makes a lot of sense.  In Magic, the only possible thematic hook for the shuffled deck is a very scatterbrained wizard....

Discordant Mind

Member

Registered: 2015-05-05

Posts: 14

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

There isn't much opportunity to win real money in online games, and certainly there's demand for this sort of experience, so why isn't CM taking off in popularity? Why aren't the ex-online poker players showing up in droves? Is it that there's no awareness of the game, or is CM just not interesting to the average poker player? I guess that's why I asked if CM might be perceived as 'dry' like Jason described chess in the interview. I don't find CM to be dry at all - I think it's captivating, addicting and thrilling, and I can't stop playing, but I enjoy slow-paced strategy games and battles of the mind, and I realize the average person may not be interested in this sort of game. I can't figure out if players just haven't found CM yet, or if the niche for this type of game is just very small (but I'm hoping for the former).

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

Players haven't found it yet.  I've been able to get very little coverage in the poker world.  Just one article, that I wrote as a guest:

http://quadjacks.com/

I'm going back to Vegas in two days to give it another shot.  Last trip paid off by getting one pro to play actively and getting me an in to write that article.

card

Member

Registered: 2014-12-25

Posts: 25

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

This exists:

https://www.chessmoney.com/cm/main
http://www.velocitychess.com/

But who would play?  Certainly not me.  I'd just lose money!

Thinking about it more, it seems like a) the demand isn't there for chess, and b) it's too easy to cheat. Still I think you are on to something with gambling on skill based gaming, it seems like if you hit on the right idea you could be really successful.

I won money consistently on Royal until the matchmaking caught up with my skill level.  Then I started winning only 50% of my games, and the rake (which is like 25%) quickly chewed me down to nothing.

Still, I HIGHLY recommend putting $10 bucks into Royal.  It's a pretty thrilling experience.

I will give it a try, thanks for the suggestion. Do you have any recommendations on which games to play?

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2014-11-20

Posts: 802

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

I was playing Gospo's Great Adventure like a madman.  It's a really well-designed game with plenty of room for skill:

http://www.royalgames.com/games/strateg … uage=en_US

But it's just a single-player game where two people (or more) play the same board in parallel and compare scores.  You can join in very large tournaments where the top prize is huge.  Whoever has the best score on the same starting board wins.  It's actually subject to chance, though, because you can only see the upper part of the board at the start.  You can't see further down, so the random layout down there is hidden info chosen by the RNG.  Very much like table cards in holdem (in that they effect all players equally), but there are no hole cards.

Actually, now I remember that GameDuel was better than Royal.

There's a balloon-ricochet-popping game, Balloon Blast, where the two players take turns.... kind of a Puzzle-Bobble clone, I think.  But it is highly competitive between the two players.  Pretty amazing.

http://www.gameduell.com/gd/landingpage … metype=mbs

Dan_Dan84

Member

Registered: 2015-02-14

Posts: 106

Re: Cordial Minuet on NPR

Players haven't found it yet.  I've been able to get very little coverage in the poker world.  Just one article, that I wrote as a guest:

http://quadjacks.com/

I'm going back to Vegas in two days to give it another shot.  Last trip paid off by getting one pro to play actively and getting me an in to write that article.

Great article. I've been curious what else you got from your trip to Vegas, beyond exciting Poker play. Good luck for your next trip!