CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

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#1 2014-12-28 22:28:14

PersonGuy
Member
Registered: 2014-12-22
Posts: 19

Random Button?

I've heard random selection discussed as a strategy. Since you put so much state knowledge on screen and are very liberal about outside assistance, why not build a shuffle button into the interface?

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#2 2014-12-28 22:34:57

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2014-11-20
Posts: 800

Re: Random Button?

Hmm...  well, there's no way I can prevent outside assistance.  That doesn't mean I WANT you to use it.

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#3 2014-12-29 14:24:32

..
Member
Registered: 2014-11-21
Posts: 259

Re: Random Button?

This is off-topic, but...

I was surprised that you said in the boxing day tournament thread that entering bots was "fine". What's the stance with bots in this game? You're fine with people running them because you have no hope of preventing them, but prefer that they don't? Or you only care about the way in which humans play/experience the game? Any difference between tournaments vs. regular games?

To be honest, I'm currently trying to analyse the game using game theory and software, and am seriously considering writing a bot for fun. I'm concerned that the game might turn out to be very easy for computer players, and you'd want to know whether that was the case early rather than later (and whether it can be 'fixed'). I don't want to scare people away from the game, though.

Last edited by .. (2014-12-29 14:26:06)

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#4 2014-12-29 15:55:09

computermouth
Member
Registered: 2014-12-27
Posts: 133

Re: Random Button?

Bots can be made for any kind of software. Unless the game was only distributed as binaries and every move made required a captcha, it's impossible to stop.


Try Linux, get free. #!++ (CrunchbangPlusPlus) is a stable distribution based on Debian 8. Keep it fast, keep it pretty.

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#5 2014-12-29 15:56:05

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2014-11-20
Posts: 800

Re: Random Button?

Well, what I'm "fine" with is different than what I want to actually build into the game.

There's a certain aesthetic experience that I'm shooting for, and playing randomly isn't it.  It's very important that the game, as an object, embodies the target aesthetic experience exactly.

So, for example, I'm not going to put a chatroom in it.  But third-party chatrooms are fine---and even exciting---to me.

I love the idea of people developing bots for this game, but I'm not going to build a bot into the game, because this is a game for humans at it's core, and I wouldn't want the average player using a bot (or random picker) as their core experience.

I didn't want players NEEDING a calculator or doing combinatorics in their heads as their core experience, so that's why I built the score graph in.  But I did want them considering strategy beyond the combinatorics, so I didn't build-in any strategic aids beyond the graph.

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#6 2014-12-29 17:09:30

jere
Member
Registered: 2014-11-23
Posts: 298

Re: Random Button?

This thread makes me wish I had a real world pair of dice to use for this game. One green, one red, both with the different hebrew characters on them. I think that would fit both the occult/gambling theme nicely.


Canto Delirium: a Twitter bot for CM. Also check out my strategy guide!

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#7 2014-12-29 18:10:24

jasonrohrer
Administrator
Registered: 2014-11-20
Posts: 800

Re: Random Button?

Hmm...

MERCHANDISE!

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#8 2014-12-29 19:45:26

computermouth
Member
Registered: 2014-12-27
Posts: 133

Re: Random Button?

That would be a killer tournament prize. Trophy dice!


Try Linux, get free. #!++ (CrunchbangPlusPlus) is a stable distribution based on Debian 8. Keep it fast, keep it pretty.

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#9 2014-12-30 00:48:47

Pox
Member
From: Canberra
Registered: 2014-12-26
Posts: 15
Website

Re: Random Button?

eVpDsYi.jpg

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#10 2014-12-30 04:54:12

PersonGuy
Member
Registered: 2014-12-22
Posts: 19

Re: Random Button?

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, what I'm "fine" with is different than what I want to actually build into the game.

There's a certain aesthetic experience that I'm shooting for, and playing randomly isn't it.  It's very important that the game, as an object, embodies the target aesthetic experience exactly.

So, for example, I'm not going to put a chatroom in it.  But third-party chatrooms are fine---and even exciting---to me.

I love the idea of people developing bots for this game, but I'm not going to build a bot into the game, because this is a game for humans at it's core, and I wouldn't want the average player using a bot (or random picker) as their core experience.

I didn't want players NEEDING a calculator or doing combinatorics in their heads as their core experience, so that's why I built the score graph in.  But I did want them considering strategy beyond the combinatorics, so I didn't build-in any strategic aids beyond the graph.

Perfect explanation. Thanks!

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#11 2014-12-31 16:07:52

..
Member
Registered: 2014-11-21
Posts: 259

Re: Random Button?

Well, OK, I'll continue investigations. Hope to post about endgames sometime. I'm revising upwards my estimate of the difficulty of writing a bot that can defeat a good human player. Pretty sure that Nate's strategy will fail miserably against a bot though smile

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#12 2014-12-31 23:55:41

Nate
Member
Registered: 2014-12-23
Posts: 52

Re: Random Button?

Pox... that killed me man... xD.

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