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Thanks! That was a great post.
I responded to a few questions there and will participate more tomorrow as needed.
This Reddit r/poker thread is getting a bit lively:
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This Reddit r/poker thread is getting a bit lively:
Yikes. Your first time being called a "shitbird" online?
The internet is such a lovely place. So supportive of others.
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I made a site that was intentionally old school looking. I used this bootstrap dos theme. Showed a few people and they were like "Oh, you haven't gotten a chance to make your site look nice yet?"
The value of novelty in web design is wasted on some people.
Try Linux, get free. #!++ (CrunchbangPlusPlus) is a stable distribution based on Debian 8. Keep it fast, keep it pretty.
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I was going to write a response to the web dev reply, but honestly there may be some value in that criticism. I wonder how many people see the website and just immediately bounce.
Not sure how you can bridge the gap between the theme and a modern looking website whose first 2 jobs are explaining what it is and then convincing you that it's secure. That seems to entail white background, sterile, feature heavy, etc. Pretty much the opposite of what you're going for: https://www.paypal.com https://stripe.com/ https://bitcoin.org/en/ Of course there's also the poker sites that have their own design.
Maybe there is some value in having a theme heavy splash page followed by navigation to some clean page(s) about what CM is, how it works, why it's legal, and why it's secure. I dunno.
Last edited by jere (2015-05-09 17:37:21)
Canto Delirium: a Twitter bot for CM. Also check out my strategy guide!
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Yeah, I've thought about this a lot.
On the one hand, it's really important for me to make something that I'm 100% proud of and excited about from every angle. If it scares people away, it's kinda working, because it should be scary. It should be weird. I want you to feel like, "Whoa, I can't believe I'm actually entering my credit card into this strange, creepy thing."
On the other hand, I do want the game to be successful.
Those two things, it seems, cannot be reconciled.
What's the point of success if it's compromised? I want to make the coolest thing I can possibly make, and have it be a success BECAUSE there's so many people out there who share my taste. I don't want to pander to what I think more people would like.
There has been a lot of talk over the year about "reskinning" CM to be more appealing to this or that demographic. If you go into a casino, you will see the Egyptian slot machine, the Kitten slot machine, the Irish slot machine, the Fishing slot machine, the Pirate slot machine. When I walk in there, I see nothing but the blandest cultural garbage. Still, it obviously works. You could imagine 20 different versions of CM with 20 different titles and 20 different websites.
The problem with that is that then there'd be nothing to talk about. There'd be nothing interesting about it. It would be just another culturally brain-dead gambling thing. So, I'm pretty sure that would backfire. Kotaku, Dtoid, RPS, etc., wouldn't even mention it.
I guess, at the end of the day, I'd rather make something that makes a few people say, "HOLY CRAP THAT IS AWESOME," than something about which everyone in the world says, "Meh, yeah, I play that too, who doesn't?"
Slot machines? Yeah, I've played slot machines.
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Yea you're right.
For fun, I tried to imagine what a different landing page would look like. http://humbit.com/cmsplash/
Quite silly.
Last edited by jere (2015-05-09 20:24:33)
Canto Delirium: a Twitter bot for CM. Also check out my strategy guide!
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Hey, that is very cool! I like the "never seen it" icon.
You know, the game is somewhat skinnable already (just change what's in the graphics folder, and edit English.txt). However, the background is fixed at black. If the bg color could easily be changed, it would become VERY skinnable. Maybe I need support for a background image too, besides just a solid color.
Given that the game is open source, I should make this easy. It might be cool to have a reskin/retheming contest. There's actually something thematically rich and on target about the "kitten" version of this game, especially if it is played on the same server against the occult people.
A cultural Trojan horse.
Kinda like this activity book for kids:
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On the one hand, it's really important for me to make something that I'm 100% proud of and excited about from every angle. If it scares people away, it's kinda working, because it should be scary.
On the other hand, I do want the game to be successful.
Those two things, it seems, cannot be reconciled.
And there it is, the world we live in. ~sigh
I wandered through a casino for the first time a few weeks ago, and I was shocked to see people feeding money into the most insipid slot machines. There was a cowboy slot machine, spewing out lines like "Let's win some money, pardner!" Ugh.
Then again, the same person burning cash at that slot machine could feel sorry for me, sitting in front of a grid of numbers at my computer, no bells and whistles, no spinning reels...
For fun, I tried to imagine what a different landing page would look like.
Why yes, I would like to give Satan all of my money.
Awesome.
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Ironically, I think this game could do quite well if it was setup at a casino. May need a bit of a reskinning or two, but it would fit right in.
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No casino would want it, precisely because there's no luck element! They can't guarantee the house would always win.
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No casino would want it, precisely because there's no luck element! They can't guarantee the house would always win.
Wouldn't a rake ensure that the house would always win? After all, just like the CM we play, it would be players against players, no? And the house takes a rake for hosting the game-- like Jason takes the tribute.
I don't think an in-person casino would want it because I think many are reluctant to host player vs. player games. Do they still provide player vs. player poker at casinos nowadays? Or only the "play against the house" type?
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Oh ya, I figured it would be played blackjack style, with player vs house and a rake. If it were player vs player, you couldn't just have it on the casino floor, since everyone would cheat!
Last edited by Cobblestone (2015-05-10 04:56:58)
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Well, thankfully Jason has said he isn't interested in selling the concept to brick-and-mortar casinos (at least that's what I think I've read).
I can just imagine them dressing it up to appeal to the players. Maybe even create little Minosons keychains as consolation prize souvenirs.
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I made a site that was intentionally old school looking. I used this bootstrap dos theme.
That's awesome. I have to admit though that the fixed width text is harder to read, though.
For fun, I tried to imagine what a different landing page would look like. http://humbit.com/cmsplash/
Also fantastic. Love the changing page title.
A creepy/dodgy cyber occult website could still look radically different, and have more draw. Considering that it is a game about staring at a grid of numbers, it's probably best to somehow describe the game rather than trying to sell it in the traditional way of gameplay videos and screenshots anyway. I like the occult theme, though personally it did nothing to draw me to the game (I was already sold). I have no idea how much the website presentation matters(I'm so used to the website that it's hard to judge.)
But one thing that did stick out to me was the inconsistency between magic recipes and scrabble pieces vs download links vs golden amulets. And I guess it's intentional that you have to go to the forums for more information (e.g. leaderboards, contest FAQ).
Last edited by .. (2015-05-10 20:09:58)
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Well, thankfully Jason has said he isn't interested in selling the concept to brick-and-mortar casinos (at least that's what I think I've read).
I hope I never said that, because it's certainly something that would be a dream-come-true scenario for me. I don't know about "selling it," but some arrangement with a casino or poker room to host face-to-face terminals with back-to-back monitors would be amazing.
About everyone cheating if it was installed on the casino floor, how do you mean?
Yes, most casinos still have one player-vs-player game left, and that's poker. It's not a huge money maker, and there was a history of casinos removing their poker rooms to make room for more lucrative vs-the-house games, but then the poker boom happened, and poker was such a draw that the trend reversed. Casinos always put the poker way in the back, though, so you have to walk by all the other games on the way in and the way out.
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Oops, sorry to misquote you, Jason. I think I was remembering this, from the November Rock Paper Shotgun article:
Something I’m trying to figure out is whether Rohrer wants to build that cultural permeation and where the game fits into the online gambling game landscape. He hasn’t been in touch with casinos or gambling sites to see whether they’re interested in his game and he’s not dressing it up in a traditionally casino-friendly aesthetic.
I can understand why it would be amazing if the game really took off and it was played in casino or poker room settings. I think that would be a dream-come-true for all of us.
What I meant when I said "Thankfully" is I had visions of the game being dressed up as some, say, Irish concept, with some animated leprechaun dancing every time you win a pot.
I've never been to a poker room, but I have watched televised poker, and I see how carefully the players look at their hole cards, to prevent anyone else from seeing them. It would be hard to hide one's screen, unless the game was played in dark, secluded booths. But I think casinos like to allow other players to watch the action. It's more likely that you'll finally sit down and "try your luck."
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Well, there are a few options.
First and easiest, you could just be playing against the wild internet. This would be best "for the game" in that these casino players would be in our pool. Say there's 10 terminals in the casino, and none are explicitly paired together. You could be playing someone 3 seats down or 300 miles away.
But if you wanted live paired players (more exciting), you could have some way of separating them to avoid information leaking through the bystanders. Maybe the players can't see their opponent's bystanders.
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