CORDIAL MINUET ENSEMBLE

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Offtopic: For fans of Jason Rohrer's games » 2017-06-05 14:11:57

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Cool! I'm glad to see that this is finally in beta. Seemed much delayed.
I tried to play the game, but there's no linux client, and the windows one froze my computer when I ran it in virtualbox (due to buggy graphics drivers, happens with other games too). IIRC the client is closed source too, right? So I'll have to try it when I get to my other computer with better graphics card/drivers. I'm surprised how similar it is to TCD, considering how much rewriting you did.

#2 Re: Main Forum » A Cordial Pirouette » 2017-06-05 14:03:02

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Marvelous. I hope to see those photos!

The 6th of June? That's today! You didn't specify a timezone though...
(Funny, I just found this thread)

With the inactivity, we need to manually organise games now. And these forums just don't seem to work for that. Occasional (regular?) reunions would be a fantastic idea.
I notice the Chatzy forum has been deleted due to inactivity. A Discord channel may work much better, since plenty of people use it, and if they have a page open to any other discord channel they would see messages from the CM one too. And it keeps a message history, like Chatzy and unlike IRC.

#3 Re: Main Forum » Came here from NPR » 2016-03-26 12:30:41

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Sorry guys; I almost never check these forums any more.

I see that 29 people played in the last month, and a month ago was already a week after Jason's interview. So maybe there was considerable activity... but even when people are playing the game, there's no activity on these forums.

Aside from that spike, CM sadly has almost no players anymore, but it would be a pity if it weren't possible to find a human to play against if you really wanted to. I know that a number of the players, like myself, still enjoy CM, but have little hope of finding anyone to play against.

I think we really need a better way for people to match up with each other. The chatzy chat room is also dead, and kicks you out after an hour anyway. Also, it's a nuisance that the game doesn't refresh once it sees a game opened by the bot.

How about an IRC channel? That might be more convenient for idling in.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Is this the end? » 2015-11-01 02:51:49

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joshwithguitar wrote:

If I win I'd be happy to play again for a higher stake as long as my balance doesn't drop below $1000.

That really seems like dodging the maximum risk which was the whole point of the offer!

#5 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-11-01 02:44:27

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Gosh, took you a while Josh smile

My own theory: this cipher isn't used anywhere yet, but Jason will use it in something else sooner or later.

Cobblestone wrote:

He originally mentioned 36 amulets here, and this is an excellent point. I don't recall exactly when the switch from 36 to 12 happened, but I seem to remember it occured after a few of them had already been made...

IIRC Jason made one test amulet and that was enough to convince him that 36 would be too many to make by hand. Either that or he realised that even before making the first.

Dan_Dan84 wrote:

Did Clock Form only create the one bot? It seems odd that CF would go through all that trouble to code up the bot, collect that data, and then not use it further.

It's really damn hard to make use of the data you collect that way because it only shows one side; I haven't even tried to look at what I have.

#7 Re: Main Forum » My little Cordial Minuet helper :D » 2015-09-19 08:48:44

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Cool. Was a bit confused at first as I mistook the O for Opponent as an 0.

I had some trouble extracting the .zip file, as it uses LMZA compression and isn't compatible with info-zip (the zip tools normally used under Unix). But it turns out that 7-zip can extract it.

I wrote some python code which parses the recordedGame file that CM outputs and tracks the state of the game; have been meaning to upload that along with the other code I have, but since CM is so inactive I haven't been motivated to do so.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Help Needed PERFORMER FROG: read this! » 2015-08-31 23:57:10

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Haha, I guess losing all your money to cullman proves something and is an admirable action!

#9 Re: Main Forum » Help Needed PERFORMER FROG: read this! » 2015-08-12 06:00:05

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I want to suggest holding a tournament to determine who gets it (those who already won an amulet ineligible but not excluded), but that seems kind of unfair to Professor Chin. (Those who a cash prize in the launch contest would still be eligible, since Performer Frog already obtained the cash portion of the 1st place prize.)

#10 Re: Main Forum » Live Streaming on Sunday » 2015-08-02 13:31:16

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OK, I'll see it later I guess. Whenever it's available. Good luck!

#11 Re: Main Forum » Live Streaming on Sunday » 2015-08-01 06:25:46

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Sweet!

What kind of time in the morning? 10am PDT? Looks almost certain that I'll be asleep.

Would be nice if a recording of Jere's side is released later. Just the recordedGame file would do.

#12 Re: Main Forum » Is this the end? » 2015-07-28 03:40:47

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Are any of those live-streamed games viewable online?

I guess a community of early adopters isn't a long term one, as they probably move onto other things quickly as well.

I still enjoy the game but I assumed I would always be able to play it later, so sort of saw no reason to actually make an effort to join tournaments and so on rather than chase other interests. I would be quite sad to not be able to play anymore, but I don't think it's impossible yet.

I would join another tournament if the hours are alright and it's not in the next few days. I think it could still easily attract a lot of people.

I think a mobile version or the cashless Steam version that was discussed could reinvigorate interest,

I feel guilty for saying that I was working on an android port, in the face of a couple other people interested in doing the same, and then dropping the project half-finished. I've got to put something up.

The CM bot known as String Corn (this constitutes a public announcement, I guess) has not been playing many games lately because it runs on my netbook which has been quite unreliable; going down because of wifi and router problems, accidentally suspending, etc. If CM is at these lows I might as well release the entire source code.

#13 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-07-05 03:45:02

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Decree Kerchief, who doesn't have a forum account, has kindly taken photos of his amulet.
a8efhri.jpg
UEaI0SZ.jpg

Also, I suppose this is as good a place as any to publicly remark that DK says he's quit CM for good after dropping to $0 balance two weeks ago, after playing a remarkable 1935 games. The reason he gave was that losing all his money repeatedly proved that he shouldn't keep playing. (I believe he was ranked 3rd for Elo rating before losing his final game.) He will be missed.

#14 Re: Main Forum » Regular daily tournament schedule » 2015-07-03 03:55:16

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Well, that's a wrap up.

Not to be mean-spirited, but I'm pleased to see Expression Bosom didn't win, because he played for only 40 min and then walked away. That's still a huge problem with the tournaments. If there were many active players you would have to stick around, but as it is it anyone who's ahead is incentivised to stop playing. But I couldn't blame Jason for not wanting to spend time implementing a different format now.

#15 Re: Main Forum » Regular daily tournament schedule » 2015-07-03 02:52:28

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Hey guys, currently 5 players in the current $1 tournament, and there's still 70 minutes left to go. This is the first real tournament we've had in weeks.
http://cordialminuet.com/gameServer/ser … e=autoB_24

Maybe we need to agree ahead of time, here on the forum or on Chatzy, to meet up and play in tournaments.

I agree that 12 hours apart would be bad, several hours apart but still in the active part of the day would be better. But by now I get the impression it might make no difference (though I'm one of the ones that has trouble joining the current ones).

#16 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-06-25 11:04:51

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Yes, I'm surprised I hadn't heard of tineye! I figured google and yandex 'search by image' were good enough.

#17 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-06-23 02:48:54

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I wonder how you cam up with that...

Wow, where did you find that CM prototype?

J is almost certainly missing because it's a cipher and J is commonly excluded to make the alphabet fit.

#18 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-06-20 03:54:44

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The "P" on the board you're referring to is actually the Hebrew letter Qof, ק, which looks little like the letter on the amulet. And this is their meaning:

http://www.triple7center.com/Codes_SYMBOLS.html
CodesSymbols.jpg

#19 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-06-16 04:28:57

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I checked that previously; although almost the entire website is stored in the CM sourcecode repository, the "solutions" for that entry box aren't included.

I hadn't noticed that "In the MEDIAN time" message before, I suppose that's been there since launch.

#20 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-06-15 09:11:51

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26 letters are excessive. Many ciphers both recent and more historical use fewer letters for English. For example the Playfair cipher used in WW1 had 25 letters to fit a 5x5 grid. Many historical ciphers both added and removed letters. You can see on that second amulet that J has been omitted, which is normal.
As another example, the cipher used in Book III of Trithemius' Steganographia (supposedly the first book on cryptography; Book III is disguised as a book on magic and demonology), which I was reading about recently, took a 23 letter Latin alphabet, dropped one letter, then added 3 for German sequences like sch, ending at 25 codes.

#21 Re: Main Forum » The Mystery of the Amulets » 2015-06-14 17:44:38

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Immunity : Car
⋈ind : Discordant

#22 Re: Main Forum » Getting the word out. » 2015-06-14 17:31:31

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Hello.

The lack of videos is extremely dire, I would place a lot of blame on that. Last I looked, there wasn't a single video giving you a hint of what double guessing and betting is like. Needs narration, not just explanation. Is it even possible to explain all the guesses and doubts that pass through your mind? Maybe not.

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Interesting article and scheme. His expected ROI would be 10% if he stops when he hits either -$500k or $500k. I believe that when he keeps playing while he's ahead, his RoI gets asymptotically closer to 20% as the amount that the casino is willing to lose increases. Suppose that the casino stops the game once he's won $1500k and he's got $500k to invest. Consider:
Game A: He starts with $0k profit, and has even odds of hitting either -$500k, at which point he stops, or $500k, at which point he enters Game B....
Game B:  He's initial $500k up. With even odds he would either reach $1500k or $-500k, so the expected profit starting from here is (1500-400)/2 = 550k.
So the expected payoff for Game A (the original game) is (550 - 400)/2 = $75k. On an investment of $500k that's a return of 15%!
Iterating again, if the casino stops at $3.5M loss then his expected RoI appears to be 17.5%, and at a $7.5M cap, it's 18.75%.

However if your odds were only something like 48-52 I would think that would take many multiples of 2% off the RoI.

Also, that's not really a Markov chain (unless you consider one with one state per possible balance, though it doesn't seem interesting), it's a random walk.

#23 Re: Main Forum » Regular daily tournament schedule » 2015-06-11 04:11:10

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Would it be possible to stagger them by 23 or 25 hours so they move around a bit over the week, before moving back to the same time at the start of the week?

#24 Re: Main Forum » Running CM on the Raspberry Pi » 2015-06-11 03:58:42

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The only progress I've made is that I finally figured out how to modify the source to get CM to run at less than 666x666 (the android port was a special case, because SDL-android gives you a screenbuffer larger than the actual screen).

I'm sure the server will run fine on any low end machine. Without databases full of thousands of users and games the only computationally expensive thing will be generating magic squares. On my netbook, with a very slow Atom CPU, that can take over 3 seconds, and I think the 1st gen RPi ARM CPU is even slower. Easy to fix: getMagicSquare6 isn't being compiled with optimisations turned on! Turning them on makes it a non-issue.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Leaderboards » 2015-06-09 07:55:22

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I think that the constants you're using in the Elo calculation are pretty bad for CM. They might be appropriate for Chess, but an excellent CM player can't beat a poor one 100% of the time. The Elo ratings can go up and down wildly over the course of a few games, which makes them pretty bad at ranking players. The range of scores has turned out to be quite low, 300-400, so a single game being able to change your score by up to 32 is too much (actual max moment is about 28). Note that what matters is the ratio between K and the constant 400 in the equation.

I've been scrapping the Elo leaderboards and would post some graphs of Elo over time, but both computers with that data are down at the moment. I see a lot of players going up and down by over 200 points. It would be interesting to see whether the fundamental assumption of the Elo equation, that the expected chance for player 1 to win is  1. / (1 + 10 ** ((Elo2 - Elo1) / 400.)), holds out in practice. I could graph actual win rates (using Elo smoothed over time) and that way we can see whether that equation is wrong for CM.

I think that Elo decay would be bad, reducing the Elo range even more so increasing the effective variance, but what you could do instead is to display on the leaderboard Elo minus a decay term. If the player comes back and plays a game they would reset the decay timer, but they wouldn't have actually lost any Elo.

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